Concept of God and creation story
Extract from The Seth Material, by Jane Roberts. Copied as a puzzle of pieces
from several sources, then corrected from obvious typos. Sources of quotes, used or not : The
Search For Life After Death - The Apocatastasis -
Al World View
(which identifies at least part of this as from Seth Early Sessions, Vol 9, Session 427) -
From the stars -
Real Talk World - Seth's Concepts
"Compiled" by Andy Hughes (other
page) - soulwise -
the seth material -
- more quotes -
Default logic - wireclub
You are not the creators of the universe, but are the creators of the physical world as you know it. (...)
Telepathic conditions called root assumptions exist, of which each individual is subconsciously aware.
The conscious ego rises out of the "unconscious" ego, but the "unconscious" being the creator of the
ego is necessarily far more conscious than its offspring.
Those who know existence on a physical level now, have, because of certain cycles, lived before at
approximately the same historical periods. They possess an inner familiarity, a cohesiveness that
belongs with the same sort of reality.
Energy projected into any kind of construction, psychic or physical, cannot be recalled, and must
follow the laws of the particular form into which it has been molded. Dreams can give clues to all
kinds of behavior. When you dream of others, they know it. When they dream of you, you know it.
There would be nothing gained, however in conscious awareness of these conditions, at this time.
The self has no boundaries except those it accepts out of ignorance. Later, in your time, you will look
into the physical system at others in a position like yours now. Within your physical atoms the origins of all consciousness still sing.
Your idea of space and time is determined by your neurological structure.
The camouflage is so craftily executed and created by the inner self that you must, of necessity, focus
your attention in the physical reality which has been created. The psychedelic drugs alter the
neurological workings, and therefore can give some slight glimpses into other realities.
These realities exist, of course, whether or not you perceive them. Actually "time"
exists as the pulses leap the nerve ends. You must then experience lapses, as this is not a simultaneous procedure.
Past, present, and future appear highly convincing and logical when there must be a lapse between each perceived experience.
There is no such lapse in many other personality structures. Events are simultaneously perceived.
Reactions are also nearly instantaneous in your terms. Growth and challenge are provided not in terms of
achievement or development in time, but instead in terms of intensities. Such a personality is able not only
to react to and appreciate event A, say, in your present time, but to experience and
understand event A in all of its ramifications and probabilities.
Obviously such personalities need far more than the neurological systems with which you are presently equipped.
Your own neurological system is physical, but it is based upon your own inner capabilities as of "now."
It is the materialization of the inner psychic framework. Many other personality structures do not need a materialized
perceptive framework such as this, but an inner psychic organization is always present.
Your time - past, present, and future - would be experienced entirely as present to many of these personalities.
However, your past, present, and future would be experienced entirely as past to still other personality structures.
Imagine past, present, and future then as a single line delineation of experience in your terms;
the line, however, continuing indefinitely. And other personality structures from other
dimensions could then, theoretically, observe it from the infinity of viewpoints.
However, there is much more than this. The single line [representing physical experience] is really
the surface thread along which you seem to travel. It is all the thread that you perceive, so when
you envision other dimensions you are forced to think in terms of observers far above the thread,
looking down upon it from any given viewpoint.
In actuality, following the image through, and strictly as analogy, there would also be an infinite
number of threads both above and below your own, a part of one inconceivably miraculous
webwork. Yet, each thread would not be one dimensional but many dimensions, and conceivably,
if you knew how, there would be ways of leapfrogging from one thread to the other. You would not
be forced to follow any particular thread in a single line fashion.
Now, there are personalities developed enough to do this. Each act of leaping, so to speak,
forms a new thread. Following through with our analogy, imagine yourself Self A. We will start
you off in physical reality on Thread A, though you have already traversed many other threads to get to where you are.
Without shortcuts or even average progression, any such Self A would travel Thread A
along the narrow line toward infinity. At some point, however, Thread A would turn into Thread B.
In the same manner, Thread B would turn into Thread C and so forth.
At some inconceivable point, all of the threads would be traversed. Now on Thread A,
Self A would not be aware, in his present, of the "future" selves on the other threads.
Only by meeting one of these other selves can he become aware of the nature of the strange
structure through which he is traveling.
There is, however, a self, who has already traveled these routes, of whom the other selves are but part.
The self, in dreams and disassociated conditions, communicates with the various "ascending" selves.
As a self grows in value fulfillment, he can become aware of these travelers on the other threads,
who would seem to him to be future selves.
All this sounds complicated, but only because we must deal with words. I hope that intuitively you
will be able to understand it. In the "meantime," the overall self is forming new threads of activity, you see.
The framework it leaves "behind" can be used by others. The purpose is, quite simply, being as opposed to nonbeing.
I'm telling you what I know, and there is much I do not know. I know that help must be given one to the other,
and that extension and expansion are aides to being.
Now — and this will seem like a contradiction in terms — there is nonbeing. It is a state, not of nothingness,
but a state in which probabilities and possibilities are known and anticipated but blocked from expression.
Dimly, through what you would call history, hardly remembered, there was such state. It was a state of
agony in which the powers of creativity and existence were known, but the ways to produce them were not known.
This is the lesson that All That Is had to learn, and that could not be taught. This is the agony from which
creativity originally was drawn, and its reflection is still seen.
Some of this discussion is bound to be distorted, because I must explain it to you in terms of time as you
understand it. So I will speak, for your benefit, of some indescribably distant past in which these events occurred.
All That Is retains memory of that state, and it serves as a constant impetus — in your terms —
toward renewed creativity. Each self, as a part of All That Is, therefore also retains memory of that state.
It is for this reason that each minute consciousness is endowed with impetus toward survival, change,
development, and creativity. It is not enough that All That Is, as a primary consciousness gestalt, desires
further being, but that each portion of It also carries this determination.
Yet the agony itself was used as the means, and the agony itself served as the impetus, strong enough
so that All That Is initiated within Itself the means to be.
If – and this is impossible – all portions but the most minute last "unit" of All That Is
were destroyed, All That Is would continue, for within the smallest portion is the innate
knowledge of the whole. All That Is protects Itself, therefore, and all that It has and is and will create.
When I speak of All That Is, you must understand my position with in It. All That Is knows no other.
This does not mean that there may not be more to know. It does not know whether or not other
psychic gestalts like It may exist. It is not aware of them if they do exist. It is constantly searching.
It knows that something else existed before Its own primary dilemma when It could not express Itself.
It is conceivable, then, that It has evolved, in your terms, so long ago that It has forgotten Its origin,
that It has developed from still another Primary which has — again, in your terms — long since gone Its way.
So there are answers that I cannot give you, for they are not known anywhere in the system in
which we have our existence. We do know that within the system of our All That Is, creation
continues and developments are never still. We can deduce that on still other layers of which we are unaware, the same is true.
The first state of agonized search for expression (existence ?) may have represented the
birth throes of All That Is as we know It. Pretend, then, that you possessed within yourself the
knowledge of all the world's masterpieces in sculpture and art, that they pulsed as realities within you,
but that you had no physical apparatus, no knowledge of how to achieve them, that there was
neither rock nor pigment nor source of any of these, and you ached with the yearning to produce them.
This, on an infinitesimally small-scale, will perhaps give you, as an artist [this was addressed to Rob,
Jane's husband], some idea of the agony and impetus that was felt.
Desire, wish, and expectation rule all actions and are the basis for all realities. Within All That Is,
therefore, the wish, desire, and expectation of creativity existed before all other actuality.
The strength and vitality of these desires and expectations then became in your terms so
insupportable that All That Is was driven to find a means to produce them.
In other words, All That Is existed in a state of being, without the means to find expression
for It's being. This was the state of agony of which I spoke.
Yet it is doubtful that without this "period" of contracted yearning, All That Is
could concentrate It's energy sufficiently enough to create the realities that existed in
probable suspension with in It.
The agony and desire to create represented Its proof of Its own reality. The feelings,
in the other words, were adequate proof to All That Is that It was.
At first, in your terms, all the probable reality existed as nebulous dreams within the
consciousness of All That Is. Later, the unspecific nature of these "dreams"
grew more particular and vivid. The dreams became recognized
one from the other until they drew the conscious notice of All That Is. And with curiosity
and yearning, All That Is paid more attention to Its own dreams.
It then purposefully gave them more and more detail, and yearned toward this diversity
and grew to love that which was not yet separate from itself. It gave consciousness and
imagination to personalities while they still were but within Its dreams. They also yearned to be actual.
Potential individuals, in your terms, had consciousness before the beginning or any beginning as you know it, then.
They clamored to be released into actuality, and All That Is, in unspeakable sympathy, sought within Itself for the means.
In Its massive imagination, It understood the cosmic multiplication of consciousness that could not occur
within that framework. Actuality was necessary if these probabilities were to be given birth.
All That Is saw, then, an infinity of probable, conscious individuals,
and foresaw all possible developments, but they were locked within It until It found the means.
This was in your terms a primary cosmic dilemma, and one with which It wrestled until All That It Was
was completely involved and enveloped within that cosmic problem.
Had It not solved it, All That Is would have faced insanity, and there would have been, literally, a reality
without reason and the universe run wild.
The pressure came from two sources: from the conscious but still probable individual selves who found
themselves alive in a God's dream, and from the God who yearned to release them.
On the other hand, you could say that the pressure existed simply on the part of the God since the
creation existed within It's dream, but such tremendous power resides in such primary pyramid
gestalts that even their dreams are endowed with vitality and reality.
This, then, is the dilemma of any primary pyramid gestalt: It creates reality. It also recognized within
each consciousness the massive potential that existed. The means, then, came to It. It must
release the creatures and probabilities from It's dream.
To do so would give them actuality. However, it also meant "losing" a portion of It's own
consciousness, for it was with in that portion that they were held in bondage. All That Is had to let go.
While It thought of these individuals as It's creations, It held them as a part of Itself and refused them actuality.
To let them go was to "lose" that portion of Itself that had created them. Already It could
scarcely keep up with the myriad probabilities that began to emerge from each separate consciousness.
With love and longing It let go of that portion of Itself, and they were free. The psychic energy exploded in a flash of creation.
All That Is, therefore, "lost" a portion of Itself in that creative endeavor. All That Is loves all
that It has created down to the least, for It realizes the dearness and uniqueness of each consciousness
which has been wrest from such a state at such a price.
It is triumphant and joyful at each development taken by each consciousness, for this is an added
triumph against that first state, and It revels and takes joy in the slightest creative act of each of Its issues.
It, of Itself and from that state, has given life to infinities of possibilities. From it's agony, It found the
way to burst forth in freedom, through expression, and in so doing it gave existence to individualized consciousness.
Therefore it is It rightfully jubilant. Yet all individuals remember their source, and now dream of All
That Is as All That Is once dreamed of them. And they yearn toward that immense source...and
yearn to set It free and give It actuality through their own creations.
The motivating force is still All That Is, but individuality is no illusion. Now in the same way you give
freedom to the personality fragments within your own dreams and for the same reason. And you
create for the same reason, and within each of you is the
memory of that primal agony — the urge to create and free all probable consciousness into actuality.
I have been sent to help you, and others have been sent through the centuries of your time, for as you
develop you also form new dimensions and you will help others.
These connections between you and All That Is can never be severed, and Its awareness is so delicate
and focused that It's attention is indeed directed with a prime creator's love to each consciousness.
This session needs reading many times, for their implications not at first obvious.
Even the overall pyramid gestalt is not static. Most of your God concepts deal with a static God, and
here is one of your main theological difficulties. The awareness and experience of this Gestalt constantly
changes and grows. There is no static God. When you say, "this is God," then God is already
something else. I am using the term "God" for simplicity's sake.
All portions of All That Is are constantly changing, enfolding and unfolding. All That Is, seeking to know
Itself, constantly creates new versions of Itself. For the seeking Itself is a creative activity and the core
of all action. [p 269-270, 1970]
Entities, being action, always shift and change. There is nothing arbitrary about their boundaries.
Some personalities can be a part of more than one entity. Like fish, they can swim in other streams.
Within them is the knowledge of all of their relationships.
Any personality can become an entity on its own. This involves a highly developed knowledge of the
use of energy and its intensities. As atoms have mobility, so do psychological structures.
Consciousness, seeking to know itself, therefore knows you. You, as a consciousness, seek to
know yourself and become aware of yourself as a distant individual portion of All That Is.
Do not only draw upon this overall energy but you do so automatically since your existence is dependent upon It.
There is no personal God-individual in Christian terms, and yet you too have access to a portion of All That Is,
a portion highly attuned to you....there is a portion of All That Is directed and focused within each individual,
residing within each consciousness. Each consciousness is, therefore, cherished and individually protected.
This portion of overall consciousness is individualized within you.
The personality of God as generally conceived is a one-dimensional concept based upon
man's small knowledge of his own psychology. What you prefer to think of as God is, again,
and energy gestalt or pyramid consciousness. It is aware of itself as being, for instance, you,
Joseph. Is aware of itself as the smallest seed....this portion of All That Is that is aware of
itself as you, that is focused within your existence, can be called upon for help when necessary.
This portion is also aware of itself as something more than you. This portion that knows itself as you,
and is more than you, is the personal God, you see. Again: this Gestalt, this portion of All That Is,
looks out for your interests and may be called upon in the personal manner.
[the below was found as just following the above in some web sites, and seems explicitly claimed to be the continuation
there = p 245-246, 2001; in another one,
it comes inserted in a different context, probably a result of patching]
Prayer contains its own answer, and if there is no white-haired kind old father-God to hear, then there is instead
the initial and ever-expanding energy that forms everything that is and of which each human being is a part.
This psychic gestalt may sound impersonal to you, but since its energy forges your person, how can this be ?
If you prefer to call the supreme psychic gestalt God, then you must not attempt to objectify him, for he is
the nuclei of your cells and more intimate than your breath.
[p.246, 2001] You are cocreators. What you call God is the sum of all consciousness, and yet the whole is
more than the sum of Its parts. God is more than the sum of all personalities, and Yet all personalities are what He is.
There is constant creation. There is within you a force that knew how to grow you from a fetus to a grown adult.
This force is part of unique knowledge within all consciousness, and is part of the God within you
The responsibility for your life and your world is indeed yours. It has not been forced upon you by
some outside agency. You form your own dreams, and you form your own physical reality. The world
is what you are. It is the physical materialization of the inner selves which have formed it.
[from other sources: p.261, 1970 = p.237-238, 2001]
[God] is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth
comes closest to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt. (Gestalt =
a pattern of individual parts so unified as a whole that it cannot be described merely as a sum of
its parts). If you remember what I said about the way in which the universe expands, that it has
nothing to do with space, then you may perhaps dimly perceive the existence of a psychic pyramid
of interrelated, ever-expanding consciousness that creates, simultaneously and instantaneously,
universes and individuals that are given – through the gifts of personal perspective – duration, psychic
comprehension, intelligence, and eternal validity. This absolute, ever-expanding, instantaneous psychic
gestalt, which you call God if you prefer, is so secure in its existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself.
Its energy is so unbelievable, that it does indeed form all universes; and because its energy is within and
behind all universes, systems and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls.
Note on the originality vs. many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory
By lack of erudition I cannot say how original this all was when published in 1970.
Just one aspect of it, the existence of parallel versions of our physical universe, can be
considered unoriginal as it has much in common with the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory,
which was published and popularized before.
However, an idea similar to the quantum
suicide thought experiment (1987), can be found in the beginning of chapter XV (Reincarnational civilizations) of Seth Speaks (1972).
Related pages: what is free will - Specifications
for a Mind Makes Collapse interpretation of quantum physics - My reply to Seth (unfinished)